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The Artisan Podcast: Open Financial Communication Strengthens Family Roots 

Updated: May 12, 2023

Don't miss this exciting episode of Artisan Podcast Arthur Salzer will be taking a deep dive into Communicating with Clients with Family Enterprise Advisor and Legacy Coach, Vincent Valeri.

While the focus on financial capital may make a family wealthy, history shows it is difficult to sustain over time. With the dedication of time to understand and grow a family's human capital, it's possible to prevent 'shirtsleeves-to-shirtsleeves' in three generations.

Key issues to be discussed on this podcast include:

Prior to being a Family Enterprise Advisor & Legacy Coach, Vincent spent several years working with families at Legacy Capitals, LLC as an Instructor, Family Enterprise Advisor and Wealth Coach. Before that, he worked as a Wealth Advisor for Scotia McLeod and as an Account Executive for Maritz Canada. He has a Master of Business in Management (MBA) from the University of Technology Sydney, and a Bachelor of Arts (BA) of Operational Management from Western Sydney University.

Make sure to check The Northland’s Youtube Channel for more episodes.




Vincent Valeri, Arthur Salzer

Arthur Salzer 0:11

So welcome to Northland's The Artisan podcast. It's a behind the scenes look at where we share insights and views from some of the world's top investors. The objective is to provide a deeper understanding of the complex challenges investors face today, and the risks and the opportunities we see for tomorrow. But in many cases, people when people think of investing, they think of financial capital. However, in today's discussion, we will focus on the investment of the family's human capital. And we believe that the investment in the family's human capital is as or more important than the financial side. So, I have with me today, Vincent Valarie. Who is a I should get this right. What is your proper title nowadays Vincent?

Vincent Valeri 1:04

Sometimes I go titleless. So I guess I'm also a family enterprise adviser and I would I would call myself more of a family legacy coach.

Arthur Salzer 1:14

Okay. And any company or no?

Vincent Valeri 1:17

Vincent Valeri. Incorporated. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'm calling myself Vincent Valeri and Associates.

Arthur Salzer 1:25

Perfect, perfect. Okay, so today we're our special guest is Vincent Valeri who is a legacy coach, highly regarded across North America as providing some of the top insights into families and family legacy.

Vincent Valeri 1:42

To start, I think it's, everything starts with a mindset. So I think that sometimes I believe families get might get too far ahead of themselves with with ideas and frameworks, everything starts, in my opinion, on how to build sometimes rebuild trust and communication. It's a mindset we want, we want, we have to want to build trust and be effective communicators. If we take on that mindset, first, as a coach, and it's a collective shared mindset amongst the family, we actually want to be better on how we communicate with each other, and how we trust each other. That's the starting point from their frameworks and strategies can develop. But without that foundational belief, or want to communicate, in my experience, it doesn't work. It really doesn't work I can, you can bring in the best Communication Coach there is. But if the family hasn't made that conscious decision, right, the conscious decision to say, hey, we want to be a communicating family, a family that believes in trust and believes in effective communication, the rest of the stuff, it's not sustainable,

Arthur Salzer 2:54

I have a question about that Vincent. Now, now you and I both grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, and if I recall properly, your family emigrated to Canada at the end of the Second World War. Yeah. And, you know, I grew up with, with, with families, and they're there, they're known as, you know, would make sure everybody had a family dinner or family lunch on Sundays. And, you know, that things have changed since the 70s, in the early 80s, and even even the 60s. So, you know, maybe how, how did the traditional, you know, Italian family or immigrant family, communicate when they first came to Canada? And then how did that change? Yeah. And, you know, because it seemed like somebody was wanting that communication. And it was known, right, it was,

Vincent Valeri 3:47

Culture plays a big role. And I'm happy you brought up our Hamilton roots Arthur, but I think it's, I think as and it's interesting to the immigrants that came over at that timeframe in southern Ontario, a lot of them did very well for themselves, financially, a lot of them. And it's the same families call it my dad, your dad, that they never had to deal with this thing called money they come from they came from very humble beginnings. It was a very top down approach. So I think early on, it started off there was there was little communication, especially in it with with a wealth creator that seems to know all and can't do any wrong. Most families just fell in line. I think these families mine included, were forced to change their their idea, which was back to my comment about mindset. They were forced to change their idea of how a family should operate. Right that that that this one person, mom or dad is all knowing it has all the answers. It's kind of silly, right? And I think that the families that have embraced this family enterprise approach that each of us in the family bring our own unique ideas, our own perspectives, our own skills. And then if each of us are all firing on all cylinders, if each of us are happy and contributing in our way, the family wealth by definition, that whole wealth, not just financial, their human, social, intellectual and spiritual wealth, it all benefits from that. Right? So I think, because what you're seeing, especially in Canada is that that generation one, our dads that came to this country with nothing built wealth, and now they have to transition it. But I think what was what was lost on them, and now it's very much in their face. And the industry that we're all in, was always very much focused on the technical stuff, I have to move this money to my next generation in the most tax, usually the most tax efficient manner. But what we've realized through this, this struggle of transition and demographics getting older and life events happening, is we're not only transitioning money, we're transitioning responsibility. And unless we talk about that and understand how each of us is wired, and how we embrace responsibility, it's not sustainable. And there's numerous examples, most recently with one of the biggest families in Canada, where they're having technical disputes about how to manage and own their several operating companies. But at the core of it, the humaneness is getting in the way. And in their particular case, it's being played out in front of the whole media, which makes it even much more awkward.

Arthur Salzer 6:30

Where are you talking about the Rogers family? Or Stronach?

Vincent Valeri 6:34

Well both, so I just saw that the other day where the the Stronach family never ceases to amaze us in their and their challenges that they're having on the family dynamics piece of their family enterprise. And I think you said it on the onset Arthur about financial capital and human capital, I believe human capital is the family's greatest asset. And if it's not nurtured, and and check and nurture checked in on addressed, it's the human capital that will propel or destabilize a family back to your earlier comment about the cultural piece, the definition of wealth, I think, is changing, right, and you're seeing this now you can have all the money in the world. But if the family is broken, if you don't have good relationships, are you really wealthy. And I think that's part of the work. And that was part of my personal experiences that when my father sold his company, we did, he did well financially. But from a relationship perspective, as a family, we really struggled to get around the table to talk about the things that were most important to us, and how we played together around this thing called money. And because of that challenge, the money was impacted. And I think that's, that's the correlation that we're I'm trying to help families, if you don't pay attention to the people, and their emotions, and their feelings, and all the soft stuff, like we like to call it, your financial capital will be impacted. And, unfortunately, you're seeing that play out with some of these larger families in Canada, across the media today, where the dynamics of the family are getting in the way of proper, proper financial execution.

Arthur Salzer 8:15

Yeah, look, I mean, it seems like you're bringing up really the communication issue. And, you know, growing up in Hamilton, we had a place called gage Park. And, and in the 70s, and I presume even more so in the 60s and 50s, it would be filled with with young families, and people would be, you know, playing you know, whether it's soccer or baseball, but but they're doing things together, you know, as a as a family, typically on the weekends, and you do end up with with that communication, you know, your cousin's come over, you share a bottle of wine and some pasta and some any pasta and everything's good. But, but when you are, you know, working more, and you're involved in a family business, it takes time away from that playing together. So how do families play together to get that communication? Like, what's, what's the trick in the modern era?

Vincent Valeri 9:11

Yeah it goes back to my earlier comment starts with mindset. It has to be intentional, right? So because families are hard to be part of a family is it's challenging. It's wonderful, but it has to be worked at you overlay, a family enterprise, some, some amount of financial capital, the complexity ratchets up very, very quickly. So how do families? How do families bring that what I'm hearing you say is how do we recreate those bonds that were that were natural to us when we were younger, as kids? How do we replicate that as a family enterprise with in laws and and varying varying priorities? It needs to be intentional. Families, the most successful families are intentional about carving out time. In a place to get the family together to have these these open and honest and vulnerable, we'll use that scary word, and sometimes challenging conversations. I think families are realizing now that if you're part of a family enterprise that actually wants to share and grow assets together, we need to learn or relearn, how to share, how to share space, how to share communication, right? I think that it's a challenge. It's a challenge, because what's made most of these wealth creators very successful in their careers has been a you know, laser focused vision. I'm right, you're wrong. It's almost like a like a bull in a china shop. But the transition it it's, it's a framework, it's a mindset that needs to shift. It's no longer about me, it has to move to we right. And I think intuitively people know this. By nature, we want to bond with people, right? Technology has been a big benefit to us, it's provided us with a lot of efficiencies. But I'm, we're seeing this, it's taken away that sitting around on a Sunday, and talking sharing stories about the old days and, and just that aspect of families talking about stuff. It's It's incredible how far removed we've gotten from that. So part of the work that we do with families is actually very intentionally helping them plan these family retreats as an example. So that we can bring back that bonding that purposeful, intentional, family time, that's not about just the business in the money. It's about the people around the table.

Arthur Salzer 11:46

Yeah, that's it sounds key. Now, Vincent, I mean, you mentioned something about, you know, formalizing these types of discussions and meetings. You know, anybody, any family, regardless of wealth, can, you know, obviously, you know, bring a hibachi to a park, a soccer ball, some bocce balls, and, and have that family interaction. And, and, you know, family reunions, you know, once a year, once every other year, I think is a huge thing. But, but families have, you know, financial wealth, they have the ability to actually put the time and the money into creating these experiences. So can you maybe jump into, you know, what a family can do or what you've seen done over the years? Yeah.

Vincent Valeri 12:32

Great question. I've depends on the family by think so for example, a family I've worked with in the US large family, fourth generation, I think they're up to 37, or 38, cousin consortium shareholders. So they had they had an, and you know, as it is, the families, just large numbers, they're dispersed all over the US. So it's hard physically, they're apart from each other, which I think emphasizes the need for that annual reunion or retreat for them just to just to be in physical proximity with one another. But a family like that we work with them for a number of years, we we with they created, we helped facilitate it. But they started to use those retreats as a learning experience for the family. So a family of that size is always tweaking and changing their estate plan, always, there's always changes being made to the tax plan to the investment strategies. So the family was always connected on calls like this as an example, talking about the money piece of it, what are we doing for our estate plan, when we when we got together as a family every year, we would create this two day Family Retreat, which would really be focused on learning. So some sort of educational component, right. So if the family had a big event coming up with respect to their estate plan, we would educate the family around that, and from from financial topics to interpersonal self, actually, self actualization, topics, like personal coaching. So with this particular family, we helped we create an education portion program for them like I said, we then help the cousin consortium, each of them created their own individual development plan. And they asked their, for them was to actually present out what are some of the goals they want to do for themselves in the coming year. And then what so one aspect of it, they would take they would carry that goal throughout the year and then the following retreat year, they would then present out their accomplishments, what challenges they had, and the family would then milk would then critique, provide feedback and celebrate their accomplishments throughout the year. It's it's simple, it sounds simple, right to get together as a large family to talk about stuff to bring an educational component to the family, but it's not. Because what is happening in those families is that there's 37 individuals that all have their own priorities, their own water, what's in this for me, so as a as a group as my advisory group, working with these families, we spend a lot of time individually with everybody prior to those family meetings, so that everybody in the family feels heard feels understood has an opportunity to contribute to the agenda for that weekend. As an example,

Arthur Salzer 15:16

it's yeah, like it sounds, you know, I think a lot of family members, especially sort of the, the next gen, they're, they're very aware of their rights, like, I'm a beneficiary of this trust, the money comes to me when I turned 35, or however it's laid out. But I think with wealth, there's also responsibilities. And it's about how do you become a good owner of, of wealth? How do you contribute to the family? How do you improve it and leave it better off than when you inherited the capital? And, and just like training, I mean, you're doing I think, maybe tight, you know, training, you know, five days a week right now, if I, if I recall properly, but but to handle large amounts of wealth, that there is training that that's required. And it's not just the initial, it has to be ongoing, it has to become habitual, just like physical training.

Vincent Valeri 16:13

for the whole family, the wealth creators included, because I think it's it's one thing to make the money, it's another thing to transition the money. It's a very different feeling. That That brings up for people. So I interrupted you, Arthur, you finish your thought, I'm sorry.

Arthur Salzer 16:27

No, no, no, no, it's perfect. Our next segment, like open communication. So, you know, how do you create that environment of safety? So that, that you can talk between generations? And maybe is it setting up a schedule? Or is it more ad hoc?

Vincent Valeri 16:48

So I think I think communication should always be happening, right. So whether it's ad hoc, I think it's I think communication should happen everyday amongst family. But it's that intentional piece. So whether it's a monthly family meeting, or family council check in that we get together as a family and we address, it also depends on the the working relationships of the family, right? Again, every family enterprise is unique. So for example, I'm working now with a family that has all five of them, mum and dad, their three boys are all working in the business every day, right? So 45 hours a week, whatever their week is. So because of that, they're always on the business mindset in that business system, they're always talking about what's in it for the business, what was happening there. So now they would get together on Sunday for a barbecue. And what would happen, they would be talking about the business. So they were actually losing the familial bond of just being a family. So with that particular family, we've actually carved out every month, they get together for two hours, whether it's virtually or in person, and we just talk about stuff, we do it we do a two hour check in, how's it going? What's coming up for you? What are some of the things that you're working on personally? How are the kids? How can we support you? From a familial perspective, for that family? It's, it's, it's been a huge benefit. Because what happens to come Monday, after they've had this kind of checkpoint, this re this, this, this intentional focus space. They're reinvigorated to get back to work together. But you made it you made a comment or a question Arthur about how do we how do we create that safety, it's preparing for the conversation. So with that particular family, they know we've created a very light code of conduct. When you come around the table on this meeting, here are the rules. Here's how we engage, nothing is offside. It's confidential. Your participation is not encouraged. It's needed. It's needed. So you with this family, you can't come there and not participate in a two hour session, someone's going to call on you. They're going to ask you How are you feeling? How are you doing? What's going on? That's part of their code of conduct. And and they're committed to it. You have to attend these things once a month. And so

Arthur Salzer 19:09

that sounds like high school when I when I went to school like the the teacher would call you up and say all right, here's the math question or here's the physics question you better answer on the board with a with a piece of chalk. And if you don't you stand there until you do right it's it's that there are responsibilities you know, whether you're going to school, whether you're going to work whether you're belonging to a family, and I'm not sure if if we really you know make sure everybody understands those responsibilities.

Vincent Valeri 19:40

Great point Arthur and I think financially successful families. I have found if they're, if, if they're, what's the word I'm looking for, to hide from the financial capital and not talk about it is a disservice to the family, to the individuals and to the money, right. And money is taboo. For a lot of people. It's a scary subject. wealth creators have transparency issues, they're not sure if the Next Gen is ready is the money going to empower or make my child entitled, these are all real things, which is, which is why, again, the intentionality of sitting around in a safe, focused environment, a focus conversation, we're going to be talking about stuff, how this impacts the individuals in the family is so important. It's so important. We see you've seen it, Arthur and Gregory, in your decades of experience in wealth management, where a life event happens, somebody passes, a will gets read, and people are literally caught blindsided, literally, like they had no idea that they were a beneficiary or dad, they. And that's sad. Because to your comments way earlier on it, people need to be prepared, there's responsibility here, and preparedness takes time. And preparedness is different for everybody. Families that recognize that and embody that our role as leaders of the family, for the sake of our wealth continuity is is to focus on human capital, you can see the difference in those families in the in their generational legacies.

Arthur Salzer 21:27

You're absolutely right, with my own family, my dad passed a couple of years ago, due to cancer and the wheel comes around and you know, I sit down with my dad's lawyer who they've known each other for for 50 years longer than I've been alive 50 plus years. And he says, you know, with my brother says, How well do you to get along with each other. Because I'd never seen the will. And all it said was my brother and I are the executors. And that's it, there was nothing else to the will. And if we didn't have a good relationship, and we couldn't listen to each other, we could be at each other's throats very quickly things like a family cottage, you know, private real estate investments, very, very complex things that the take, you know, agreement on to to do. And, and that's something that, you know, I saw as a lacking, you know, my family, so I might my 51st birthday, you know, just over a month and a little bit ago, and Vincent and his wife actually, you know, attended my birthday party. And I'm just at the initial stages, my, you know, my brothers, you know, young adults and adult children. And there's six of them. You know, I've been trying to get them to start to roll in the right direction. But But it can't always come from an uncle it can always come from a mom and dad. And and having an independent person a an independent professional, who who has the right you know, strength of personality, can can listen, but also can provide advice. Even though we're not, you know, a client yet. You know, you you were speaking to my niece, and trying to get her to share her thoughts where I don't think she's ever really shared them before. And and she's starting slowly on a on a on a different path from where she was going just by, you know, spending a few hours together with Vincent. And and it's, you know, I think having that the trusted third party, be theirs is critically important for a family. Yeah.

Vincent Valeri 23:42

Agreed. And thank you for the kind words and I think it's, it's, it's helpful to, I really gravitate to the rising Gen and next gen of families because that's who I am. That's my experience, personally, and now professionally for the last decade working with families like like ours are third, to bring these conversations up. So I know the topic today generally is around communication. And I'll say it again, the first step is wanting to communicate, right? That's that you can't teach that. Right? You know, someone will say, teach me to be empathetic, it's like, wow, either you care or you don't, right. We can teach you skills, how to be a better communicator, when to listen, how to ask questions, but the the caring piece, right? That is either it's that's a mindset and I think with families, just recognizing that is so fundamental to their growth and success, that it's I don't want to say that the rest of it is easy, but it's that first part and I have found some of the most, the most successful and inspiring family meetings I participated in, is watching mum and dad the wealth creators just be absolutely vulnerable about what they're feeling what they're thinking. And when that family leader that patriarch or matriarch goes first, and I don't want to say bear their soul, but brings that vulnerability to the table that they have questions. They have insecurities. They're human. Right? They have worries about the money about the family. That is what creates safety. Right? Acknowledge and because wealth creators have this aura about them, right? So I grew up with what my dad was a wealth creator, big personality, hard driving, he was big. To me, he was bigger than life. So if that

Arthur Salzer 25:38

was his brother was a big personality today, right?

Vincent Valeri 25:41

My uncle is a politician. Yeah. So your show, as a young father that I was I'm, I'm growing up in this environment of success, and not only and notoriety to some extent, that plays on you. So now you start to you start to run through scenarios in your mind, if I don't do this, will I be successful. And it's that negative belief trap that we get ourselves into. It's, it's so part of it. And my personal example, story was my success definition, when I was younger, was tied to there's my dad in particular. So if dad made a lot of money, therefore, I had to make a lot of money, or also, I'm not successful. And that was a that was a the wrong belief that I was carrying for a very long time, because it was foolhardy stupid, frankly, to compare my life to somebody else's, including my dad, completely different circumstances. And that's one of the things I offered a family, especially when I coach the rising Gen, to compare yourself to your dad, or your grandfather that that were their wealth creators. It's not fair. It's not fair to you, the only person you really can compare yourself to is who you were yesterday. That's it. And if you take the mindset of marginal improvements, I believe that's how you live a more successful, happy, fulfilled life. But in a roundabout way, safety, how do we create safety and families is we acknowledge that we don't have all the answers. And we acknowledge that communication is strategy. Without it, the other stuff, it's not going to be sustainable.

Arthur Salzer 27:20

JJ Hughes, in, you know, over a course of a few of his books, talks about families of affinity. And, and a family has to want to be together. Now, there aren't points in time. And I've met quite a few families that family office events in the United States, where the family actually said, you know, there are two factions, maybe even three, and those need to work together holistically. But, we need to do it apart. You know, is that a solution? It is, you know, agreeing to disagree. And going it alone? Better than discord between members? Because they have to stay together?

Vincent Valeri 28:06

I would say, yeah, absolutely. I whatever works for the family. And I think that I think the notion, you know, both Gregory and I, Gregory and I met in that family enterprise course, and one of the things the one of the instructors, I don't remember which segment it was, was, as we cannot want the family to stay together more than them. Number one, number two, maybe not, not, maybe, but not all families should be together. I think that I think and that's acknowledging that it's recognizing that being a family of wealth, or family enterprise comes with tough decisions. And part of it, you know, whether it's Jay Hughes, or all the other authors, John Ward, talks about pruning the family tree, it's about being really realistic, are what our roles are inside this family. And if that doesn't work for you, or you and I fundamentally can't get along, then maybe a separation of assets and responsibilities is the best course of action for our family. One family I've worked with, in particular, had a very successful dad started the business. There was four or five siblings in the in the G2. They actually they were gifted the business, but the siblings actually had a transaction in their second generation amongst each other. Were one of the brothers became a larger shareholder. And it was very successful. They talked through it. So to your point, Arthur, that family made a conscious decision to actually separate out their their ownership interests so that they could they can remain family. And that's great. That is absolutely great. I think what happens oftentimes, to your comment about fractions is because for example, if a family has a business, we all must work in the business in order to be successful, or in order to be family. We All must work in the business. And that is not healthy. If an individual doesn't is on their own path, and they're happy, and this is JJ Hughes, and self sufficient, that's amazing. And that's enough for that person to pigeonhole them or to force people, siblings, cousins, into a partnership, that doesn't work for them as people.

It doesn't serve, it doesn't serve the family, it doesn't serve the individual, and it for sure, won't serve the money. One of the statistics that we heard in the FDA course, was that the largest form of litigation today, or is trust litigation, right beneficiaries are suing their trustees. And that for me that the what a missed opportunity as a family to talk about what why we're doing this trust, what does it mean to be a beneficiary? What does it mean to be a trustee, that trustee beneficiary relationship, as an example, is sacred, and it's going to be together, they're going to be together for a long, long time. So we better figure out what kind of relationship we want, so that we can share in manage assets together, the industry that we're all in wealth management, I obviously play on the on the relational side of it misses that key component, I think, oftentimes, where in my mum and dad are have all the right intentions. We want to transition these assets to our kids. Fantastic. But it's talking it's that responsibility piece as well. Are they the appropriate people to be in a business relationship, very different, very different criteria, and helping family separated, we can still be brothers, we can still be siblings, but not in business together. What's great, as long as we know and afford each of us the opportunity to talk about that, and figure it out together. That's what I believe is a criteria for success. And I think that model, it's incredible how it's withstood the test of time. There's new models being being shared with us today in our field. I think for me with that model, the overarching takeaway, from my perspective, is that anxiety, this thing about anxiety, if something happens in one system, if something happens at the business, it affects our family relationship. Right. And you can't as much as we say, separate the conversations, separate the systems, and we do with respect to governance and different different decisions are made in different systems. But the reality is, we're bonded, right? Whether whether or not we work together, we're family. And even if we don't get along, we don't see each other we don't if we're even if we're a strained, something happens to a family member, it affects me. Right. And I think it's acknowledging that and we're and we're social beings. Right. And I think now what's because of the boomer generation, that that the amount of wealth that's been created, this is this is net new territory for, for the majority of families that we serve in North America. They have never had to transition this amount of financial capital to their kids, they've never had to, and that opens up incredible opportunities for education, for philanthropy for impact. But unless we address how this impacts the humans on an individual basis, in my humble experience, it seldom works.

Arthur Salzer 33:49

Absolutely. Now, you know, families before they come to, you know, someone like yourself, you know, I always think being prepared doing a little research is always good. Are there are there any books or readings that you suggest to families to say, you know, start on this path, read through a couple of these, and the our meetings, our get togethers are going to be so much more productive.

Vincent Valeri 34:16

Thank you. So you mentioned James Hughes. So I'll start. So two of his books, the cycle of the gift is incredible. And I and the one that really hit me over the head, and when I found it many years ago, is the voice of the rising generation. So the voice of the rising generation in the cycle of the gift by James Hughes and others, when when I work with families that have rising Gen, which most of them do, I that that voice of the rising Gen is that is the first point of contact, read this book. And it's such a it's such a, it's so profound when they come back after reading it because they literally people are like, how does how do they know that I'm experiencing this? And I say with families with all love and respect. Everything is unique to you and what you're experiencing, but it's not unique in the grand scheme of things. There's only so many things that we can experience as people feelings. And you can actually map it, what families are going through during transitional time. So I'll repeat that. So the voice of the rising Gen. Incredible read the cycle of the gift. From a business perspective, I think Good to Great for me by Jim Collins really stands the test of time for the simple fact that he introduced the concept of a level five leader, right, so our dads are third, they grew up in a very different timeframe. They were hard drive in my way or the highway, that that leadership mentality is not sustainable in today's age with the crazy Millennials running around and the advent of technology, the access to information, I when, I equate that level five leadership, I offer that same framework to families to leaders and families, you have you know, lead, be a leader in your own life and in your family. And that starts with intentionality with communication, empathy, actually trying to understand and put yourself in somebody else's shoes to see where they're coming at what they're coming at life with. So the voice of the rising Gen cycle of the gift, Jim Collins Good to Great and I'll plug one more if I can, only because it's written by a dear friend of mine and colleague, Kristin Heaney, it's called in three generations. So a lesser known book. It talks a little bit about her, I don't want to give it away. But Christine Heaney was an unknowing inheritor. So she's one of those clients that we see oftentimes, where families do a lot of planning at their generational level, don't share their intentions or planning with their kids. And then bang, a life event happens, typically somebody dies. So in Christine's book in three generations, she talks about it's it's a story about a family that goes through this unintentional inheritor experience, and she offers a lot of frameworks and questions that we can ask our parents about their intentions with their wealth.

Arthur Salzer 37:16

That's fantastic. I think that's a great way to end today's discussions. And Vincent and Gregory, I want to thank you both for your time today. And it's it's a real pleasure and thank you both for for everything you do for for families in Canada for family enterprise, it's greatly appreciated.

Vincent Valeri 37:35

And thank you, Arthur. I know you've been a shining light for family offices in Canada, a leader in your space and thank you for continuing to push the envelope on what it means to serve family enterprise.

Arthur Salzer 37:45

Thank you.


Communication, Human Capital, Generational Wealth, Family Wealth, Idea Exchange, Family Enterprise, Canada, Dedicated Discussion, Shirtsleeves-to-shirtsleeves, Family Enterprise Advisor,


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